Re: [JDEV] Here's how ICQ would work.

[Jeremie <jeremie@jabber.org>]

I just want to point out/emphasize that the description Dan wrote up here
is excellent and right on target!  Somehow we'll have to start getting
some of this good content up on the web site. 

> Let me expand on that:
> 
> Say Alice and Bob both have ICQ accounts, and are on eachother's ICQ buddy
> lists. Alice switches to Jabber (and her server supports ICQ). Alice stops
> using her ICQ client. When Alice logs into Jabber, her jabber server logs
> into ICQ on her behalf.  When Alice (using jabber) sends a message to Bob,
> her server sends an ICQ message from her ICQ account. Alice is using ICQ
> via remote-control! Bob won't ever suspect that Alice has switched to
> Jabber.
> 
> Jake, another jabber user, doesn't have and ICQ account or an ICQ-enabled
> server. Jake can now talk to Alice via jabber, but he can't talk to Bob.
> Jake doesn't care, since he's lived his life up to this point without
> getting an ICQ account. ;)
> 
> Later, Bob gets Jabber (on an ICQ-enabled server). When Bob logs into
> jabber, his server logs into ICQ on his behalf. Bob can still see Alice
> thru ICQ, and they can send messages back and forth. Alice and Bob see
> eachother on their jabber buddies list, even though it's really their ICQ
> buddies list. Alice and Bob can go on like this forever without realizing
> they both have jabber. When Alice sends a message, it goes like this:
> 
> Alice client --> Alice's jabber server -> ICQ transport --> 
> ICQ servers --> ICQ transport -> Bob's jabber server --> Bob's client
> 
> In fact, Bob and Alice could be on the SAME jabber server, and still not
> know it. Sure it's inefficient, but I don't see any way to detect jabber on
> either end without being intrusive. ("This message brought to you by
> Jabber(TM), the new XML-enabled personal messaging protocol for good little
> boys and girls!")
> 
> Later, Alice mentions her jabber address, and Bob adds her as a jabber
> buddy. Whenever Alice logs in, two entries appear on Bob's list: One for
> jabber, and one for ICQ. Bob knows it's the same person so he takes Alice
> off his ICQ Buddy list. Problem solved. Alice has to do the same thing too.
> 
> [Side note: we could write lots of code to try and detect this, but I don't
> think it's needed. Besides, mabye Bob doesn't know that his friend
> Alice@alice.org is the same person as his friend "DarkAvenger" on ICQ. Why
> spoil it? ]
> 
> That's how it should work. Here's my implementation thoughts:
> 
> - Adding/removing buddies from the ICQ list should be do-able from the
> client, as normal jabber add/removes. The client must have *NO* code to
> support ICQ, and the transport must do all the work of translation.
> 
> - Rosters are stored at the server, since I don't want to re-type my buddy
> list if I borrow a random computer.
> 
> - Jake (who doesn't have ICQ) can't talk to ICQ users. Before he got
> jabber, he didn't have an ICQ account. Why should he "suddenly" want one
> now? Let's face it: Jake doesn't care about ICQ users. Or AIM users. He
> uses jabber because his friends are reachable thru jabber. [ Therefore, the
> "ICQ account creation" feature of the ICQ transport is not important enough
> for Version 1.0. It could always be added later. In the mean time, people
> could get their ICQ account the old-fashioned way :]
> 
> - Identity strings between client and server will probably be "123412@ICQ",
> but I don't like that. Imagine Alice giving Bob's ICQ number to Jake. Jake
> types "123412@ICQ" but his server doesn't have an ICQ transport. His server
> will assume that ICQ is another server and try to contact it. Even if a
> computer named 'icq' doesn't exist, Jake's server is confused. Yuck. IMHO,
> there should be some special way to identify transports vs. computer names.
> I don't like requiring a period in the server name because there are many
> intranets (and Micro$oft networks) without name servers or connections to
> the internet. All computers are known on a first-name only basis. Maybe a
> slash (123/ICQ) or a pound-sign (123#ICQ) or combo (1234@#ICQ) ???
> 
> - Handling multiple ICQ accounts is going to be tricky. If alice has 2 ICQ
> accounts (one for DarkAvenger and one for Alice), and she sends a message
> to a random ICQ user, how does she specify which ICQ account to send out
> on? If the user is on her buddy list, she can indicate her preference once,
> and everything will be cool. There is still the question of how to name the
> transports: "1234@ICQ.DarkAvenger" ? ? ?
> 
> [ The client/server division would suggest that the prefrences be stored on
> the server, so the client only sends it to 1234@ICQ, and the server figures
> it out. But if the server doesn't know your prefrences for a particular
> user, then how would it ask the client for the new prefrence? Shesh, this
> is giving me a headache. ]
> 
> - Billy (who only has ICQ) can only message jabber users who have ICQ
> accounts. But he doesn't know them as 'jabber users', only ICQ users. Billy
> cannot talk to Jake and vice-versa. They couldn't before jabber, but we're
> not here to solve the world's problems. :)
> 
> Everything I said for ICQ also applies to: e-mail, 2-way pagers, PGPJabber,
> AIM, and smoke signals. None of these protocols should appear anywhere in
> the client source code. (well, except encryption). The point is to be able
> to add these protocols (on the fly) at the server ONLY. As far as the
> client is concerned, roster names are just arbitrary strings that the
> server makes up.
> 
> -=Dan=-
> 
> P.S. I like the "conversation" idea for configuring jabber transports ;)
> but I don't think it has enough 'navagation ability'. What if the user
> wants to start over? what if they want to skip a section that they've
> already configured?  At least with touch-tones, you've got the # and *
> keys.
> 
> P.P.S. Brainstorming new jabber transports (or client features)
> - WinPopup messages (M$ networking) - Totally do-able via Samba.
> - IVR (Computer calls you up and reads your message.)
> - WinAmp messages (dmag is now playing "CJ Bolland - Sugar is Sweeter")
> - X10 - remote control lights and stuff.
> - Web 'presence' support (see who's on a web page..). Modify NetScrape to
> send http header "X-Jabber: alice@alice.org", and server will add an
> "X-Jabber" header with a list of jabber users to who recently visited that
> page. It could work ;).
>